Bob Benham July 01, 2006

A Bookseller Responds to Whining about Abe and the "Big A's"

Hello,



First, thank you very much for your informative newsletter. I look forward to it.



I've been following the letters about the big 'A's, especially ABE. I've heard enough whining from booksellers.



I am a small bookseller selling on ABE. I am pulling the ABE oxcart, under their lash, which is loaded with my books. I must take my beating because there is no other practical way to transport my books. No matter how much they beat me, I will continue pulling their cart. They know this. I shall not whine about it. I shall be a realist and know that there will be no 'cart-pullers' strike, bookseller's union, or mass exodus or mass anything else, other than the mass whining we now hear. I must pull ABE's cart because they're the biggest cart out there.



All this talk is a bit like the talk about gasoline prices. The price can't get high enough to curtail driving. Everybody knows it, especially the oil companies. You're not going to see any mass parking of cars anytime soon, and you're not going to see any mass movement away from ABE either. They're too big and care only about their bottom line, as they should, and as you should care about yours. One way is to increase prices to pay for the ABE increase. That's something we could all do. It's easy to do and effective, but most dealers think 'Heaven forbid we should ask the consumer to stand part of the cost'.



Another thing professional booksellers need to suspect is that the bulk of 'book dealers' on ABE are not full-time booksellers earning their living from bookselling. Many are 'basement booksellers' with another income and ABE can't flog THEM hard enough to get them to slip out of the harness. They'll keep pulling the cart. Trust me on that one. So all you professional booksellers 'don't make a hill of beans' as Bogart said. When ABE increases their commission to 10 percent, which is surely on the way, they'll not even see a blip in their bottom line. They'll wave the whip and smile all the way to the bank, as they should.



ABE's intent, as is proper, is to make money for ABE owners. They're not going to give up Print on Demand or mulitple listings or anything else that makes them money. No one can fault them for that. What booksellers should do is pass ABE costs on to the consumer.



That's the way things work, folks. Pass the cost on or slip the harness and quit pulling. Above all, quit whining.



Regards,



Bob Benham

Book World

Aurora, Colorado

Joel Kovarsky July 01, 2006

re: Smiley Map Case

With respect to the decisions in the Smiley case, it is my understanding that all investigational aspects are not yet fully closed. The best place to keep up-to-date on many of the issues involved is, in my opinion, Tony Campbell's ongoing entries at the Map History site, specifically: http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#smiley.

Regards, Joel Kovarsky

Unstated June 01, 2006

re: William Blake Sale

I am a "William Blake" fan and have been for a long time. Greed, Greed, Greed. The world of "taste", "quality" and honorable love of the arts is falling rapidly by the wayside. What else can you expect from people who truly lack the amenities of life. But in the very end respect for these so called people of culture will be gone.

Bookaday May 04, 2006

Bruce:

We've read your articles regarding e-bay and auctions in general and you have made some interesting and worthwhile observations. We have been selling books online for several years and have only attempted e-bay auctions once, with several Limited Editions Club books in very good condition. In addition, we have been selling antiques and ephemera at shows and markets for a substantial while longer. We have some of our own observations which supplement your own.

First, as to e-bay:
(a)there's entirely too much "stuff" out there and much of it is "trash", and this goes for all merchandise;
(b) we have observed that with e-bay available, everyone fancies themselves a "dealer". Knowledge is not a pre-requisite, just buy cheap and re-sell on e-bay and make your fortune. Alas, if this were so easy we could all be rich.
(c) despite e-bay's attempts to insure that people will treat others fairly and be treated fairly, there are too many horror stories of merchandise arriving and it is not as described and attempting to get your refund is all but impossible or such a hassle that it is not worth the time;
(d) it takes time and effort to correctly list an item and be available to answer all the questions (even stupid ones) that inevitably come up.

I know a retired gentleman who regularly lists on e-bay, but generally can't list more than 15-20 items per week because he has estimated that each item, from start to shipping, usually takes over an hour. Now, as to the effect that all of this has had on the markets (the antique and flea and show market), what we have found is that many customers come to these shows looking for the bargain to list on e-bay and expext to pay $1.29 for everything, then tell you that they have to make a profit. Well! I guess that us dealers only do this as our charitable contribution to society!! We also get the feedback that dealers don't bring "good stuff" to shows and markets because they sell it on e-bay. Nothing is farther from the truth. The dealers who work these shows and markets prefer to deal with knowledgable buyers who can see what they're buying, understand what it is and buy, or, if time permits to deal with a buyer who would like to be educated (and hopefully become a repeat customer) by a knowledgable seller. But with the atmosphere e-bay has created, many items that would be available to knowledgable dealers are no longer so, since they can all be sold on e-bay. That makes it difficult to keep everyone happy.

We occassionally find the middle ground in that we often accept consignments from prospective sellers who do not want to sell at a discounted price to a dealer, yet, are willing to wait for a sale at a price determined by both seller & consigner. That price can be reduced as necessary until, as a last resort, it can always be sent to auction. We refer to auctions as a last resort because the two major factors for a good (meaning successful for a seller) auction are, first, it has to be a decent item and, second, two people have to want it that day. It's easy to get burned at auction and we advise potential clients that unless they need the funds right away, give consignment a try.

Leigh Stein May 03, 2006

Dear Bruce:



This is to show you that I'm actually reading material that comes from Americana Exchange. Slowly but surely I hope to use it more as time goes by. The keyword lookup was extremely helpful on a recent book so I'm beginning to see the value of your efforts.



Just to be somewhat contrary, however, I'm writing this note to comment on your recent editorial with respect to Ebay. I strongly feel that Ebay is the last site that will be helpful to the serious bookseller. For the occasional bookseller it should be most useful but to buy good books you have to pay good money. It doesn't just happen by the luck of the lottery. To sell those books on an economic ongoing regular business basis the chances that one takes by putting books up for sale on Ebay would lead to certain downfall.



It is fine for the masses but when you have to buy books you also have to hold them many times for extended periods of time. There is a very substantial investment in doing so. Oftentimes the recouping of one's investment takes months, even years, and not even the breadth of Ebay's market replaces the unique conditions that surround the sale of good books. That is why Amazon, Alibris, and Abebooks are much closer to the appropriate methodology, as is the use of serious auctions with serious catalogs and research. Who should know this better than the Americana Exchange.



Best regards,



Leigh Stein

Eveleigh Books & Stamps

buzzard509 May 02, 2006

I find eBay an excellent source for both buying and selling rare books. I bid about 100 items a week and win about 10% of the time but when I do win I get a great bargin. Most of the items I win I end up reselling on ebay at a big profit mostly because the previous seller was a novice or an idiot. It is pretty easy to buy items off abebooks and sell them on eBay for big profits if you are paying attention.

buzzard59

Rebekah Bartlett May 01, 2006

I have to say that I thought your two articles discussing ebay in the scheme of used/rare book selling were very well done and very much on point. My experience has been along the lines you suggest. I have a website and biblio.com listing but mainly sell on ebay. I did want to note however that selling prices on ebay are not always lower than fixed price sites -- I have found that a significant number of buyers on ebay do not apparently consult fixed price listing venues, and sometimes material that is lower priced on abe for example will achieve high numbers of bids and higher prices on ebay. This creates an excellent resale opportunity for those who track ebay selling prices. Many strange things in particular turn up in the slightly over $100 category, often material that is very recently published but already uncommon.

AE Monthly is terrific and I always look forward to reading it!

Rebekah Bartlett, Coelacanth Books

www.coelacanthbks.com

Ms. Mickey Kaz May 01, 2006

I wanted to thank you always for providing such a wonderful 'newsletter'! I glean a LOT of information on bookselling venues and more from each month's issue and do appreciate that it's FREE!!!!

With all the book selling sites, gouging us booksellers any way they can, it is refreshing to read all the 'truth' in YOUR articles and for FREE!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Ms. Mickey Kaz

booksr4u. net

Hermann Strack May 01, 2006

EBAY:

A few notes from a bookdealer's view

Just read Bruce McKinney's story, and wanted to comment.
I am a Dutch bookdealer, and have never sold through Ebay.
I find that as a specialized bookdealer (natural history, science, travel) I do best when I sell through internet PDF catalogues (a few printed ones for special customers) and offering books to my clients. Besides I am not dealing with ABE because they are a hassle (money and time wise). I put my inventory through Antiqbook (a Dutch company) on the net. And through them (and AddAll, Bookfinder etc.) I make enough extra sales and find new clients to send catalogues to. This works well for me.

I sometimes buy from Ebay but you have to remember that:

* It is a lot of trouble going through a lot of junk books to find a few good ones that often will be sold to others. I only have a quick look from time to time to see if there are a few highlights.

* You mostly buy what you can get (as on most auctions), not what you are looking for (the great strength of listing sites is the tremendous choice they have).

* McKinney states that many collectors (or their families) will sell through Ebay. I don't think so. My experience is that many of the better books are sold by dealers and bought by dealers! These will sell, and as always the great majority of the ''junk'' books will remain unsold or will go for a price I would not bother to pack and send a book for.
Except for a few exceptions families will not sell through Ebay. A few will find it fun and perhaps become booksellers. Most of the families want to get rid of it and do not want to do tiresome deals with loads of individual books and at the end find that half remains unsold.

* Several ''interesting looking books'' are going for more money than they are worth. If these (I presume) private customers would be checking the listing sites AddAll or Bookfinder they would find these books at lower prices!

* I am thinking of selling a few (suitable) items through Ebay, but it will remain a marginal ''sellingtool'' for me.

Hermann Strack

(Natural History / Science / Travel Books)

Dan MacMurray May 01, 2006

Mr. McKinney,

Excellent advice regarding selling books on eBay but you missed one new and important aspect: PayPal's miserable new "protection policy" that forces sellers to send international orders by very expensive Global Express Mail.

Any buyer can claim not to have received his or her shipment and, unless the seller can give PayPal an online tracking number, will receive an instant full refund (and the seller a chargeback).

Global Priority does not offer online tracking. USPS's only offering with international tracking is Global Express Mail.

I sold something to an Italian buyer who would pay only for surface shipment (six weeks); he complained to PayPal seven days later that he had not received the item. Despite the circumstances PayPal immediately charged me back for the full amount and the buyer never answered another email.

So, you might answer, that's what feedback is for. You might address the issues of "feedbcak" and PayPal some time: If you give bad feedback, regardless of the circumstances, you receive bad feedback. None of us wants to hazard our "on line reputation" and feedback score, so we just bite the bullet and put the deadbeat on our "do not accept bids" list.

The advise from PayPal and eBay is to accept the risk as part of the cost of doing business. That's ok for Mr. Macy but it doesn't work out for a retired guy selling something for a hundred bucks on eBay.

Thanks again for your article. I've copied it and will give it to friends who ask for help getting started on eBay. I'll also look a little more deeply into your offering. I've ignored past emails but you certainly appear to be offering worthwhile advise.

Dan MacMurray

Joe Linzalone April 04, 2006

re: Abe

ABE wants to profit as a bookselling business when it is only a Listing Service.

Booksellers buy inventory, expertise and grade their books, list and photograph them, process the order and ship the merchandise.

ABE is involved only in advertising, and now in credit card processing at a steep fee.

ABE service to book dealers has diminished, as well as order revenue. Anyone can pay the fees and sell on ABE, so inexpert and wrong descriptions not only plague buyers, but reduce the veracity of sellers and their product.

I sell first edition collectable books and I liked ABE very much once. Fees have dramatically increased with no increase in service. Your statistic of perhaps 8% selling is in line with complaints of my colleagues.

We are all waiting for a new competitor to ABE so professional booksellers can switch from a once respected listing service, to a company better run and less greedy. I have severely diminished my listings on ABE, and income is the same, perhaps even better.

Joe Linzalone,
Wolfshead Gallery

Bill McBride April 02, 2006

re: Review of McBride's E-First Editions

In all the years we have been publishing A Pocket Guide to the Identification of First Editions and, lately, the Electronic version EFEG, we have been the subject of many a review. Without exception, every reviewer made some major error or a collection of minor ones that add up to the same thing, rendering the review welcomed, but one that, when reading it, prompted shouts of "No, no, no!" or "Well, not exactly!" or "There's more to it than that . . . ".

Until now.

Ms Roberts has struck fire where others have merely made a few sparks. She got it right.

And we thank her.

Best,

Bill McBride

Editor's Note:

Renee Magriel Roberts' review of McBride's E-First Edition Guide may be found at the following link: Click here.

Nathan & Company April 02, 2006

Abe/Alibris Comparison

We read your ABE article with much interest. We do business with both ABE and Alibris.

ABE is a listing service. Alibris is a book buyer and reseller. The difference between the two is the same as the difference between the newspaper that advertises your car and the customer that actually buys it. The two are worlds apart. It's astounding how few booksellers understand this.

The ABE self-justification scenario has become a frequent topic of discussion in our bookshop. Part of what we find troubling is that the majority of booksellers appear to know so little about Alibris - such as their exceptional fraud-detection system and protection policies.

Did you know that most of Alibris' bogus orders are caught before they're even captured? Did you know they have entire computer systems in place dedicated to nothing but preventing fraud? Did you know that even if a bogus order somehow manages to make it through all their safeguards, the bookseller is never liable for a chargeback?

Unlike ABE, Alibris IS the end customer. They take title to the book. They OWN it. They have a vested interest in preventing fraud, because it costs THEM money.

If a book is shipped after the fraud is detected, the bookseller is still out nothing. Alibris either absorbs the cost or, if the book was shipped directly to them, they put the book in their Sparks warehouse for resale (an amazing operation, by the way). Either way, the bookseller is protected.

The sad thing is, practically no one knows any of this because they never see it. Alibris insulates booksellers from fraudulent orders. The majority of booksellers just go on about their business, oblivious to it all. It doesn't get much better than that.

Whatever ABE may claim they are about to begin doing regarding fraud, Alibris has already been doing for years. From where we sit, they do it better than anyone in the industry.

But as good as Alibris is at anti-fraud, they are utterly ham-handed at self promotion. Their PR is near-legendary, among the worst ever seen. Alibris' idea of "news" comes across as self-congratulatory, xenophobic rhetoric. At times it has been borderline nauseating to read.

Such as it is. Most of the time, they keep a low profile and just do their jobs. I suppose we respect that. Perhaps it's no surprise that Alibris doesn't regard fraud protection as being of much interest to booksellers. From their perspective, it's an in-house issue.

As for ABE, reading their new terms closely, one realizes that they will "protect" the bookseller only under certain circumstances and in accordance with the reams of legalese that characterize their every move. Sadly, they have become a model of sleaze.

If you're selling books through ABE and making money, great! Stay there! But don't kid yourself, they are no longer the company Rick Pura founded. For booksellers who smugly tout their historical lack of chargebacks, congratulations! You're in the minority. You can feel good about your freedom from crooks. Just pray it never happens to you, because you'll discover to your horror that, as far as the credit card companies go, YOU LOSE. Period. End of story.

Most merchants have experienced chargebacks in their businesses and some have had horrible experiences with orders from places like Nigeria, Indonesia and others. And, the frequency of fraudulent US- and Canadian-based orders is not going down, it's going UP. A few Google searches reveal how big a problem it is. USA Today just did a big story on online fraud. The article said less than 10% of all companies really have their acts together to counter fraud.

But don't expect ABE to be any kind of magic bullet. ABE has protected themselves, not you. The CEO interviewed in USA Today said, "A company has to be completely prepared to deal with fraud. Halfway measures won't cut it." ABE is not prepared - not by a long shot.

We'll be leaving ABE as of May 1. Never thought we'd say so, but we're not sorry to go. They were great during the "Golden Age" but those days are gone.

Just to be clear: We do not work for Alibris, we have no agenda, we have no involvement with Alibris in any way, other than they buy our books and we once visited them. Faults notwithstanding, they do their jobs well and it's high time someone said so. Our orders are steadily increasing over time and that makes us smile on payday.

There was a time we could say the same about ABE. Not any more.

-Nathan & Company

Anonymous April 01, 2006

Re: Book Decor

Unfortunately, this is not new. Thirty years ago I had an open shop in a small NH town, and we regularly had decorators come in looking for fancy bindings and decorative spines. It took a while before anyone told me what would become of these treasures - they would be glued together and run though a saw to a depth of 2-3 inches Then shelving didn't have to be so deep and take so much space out of the room. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Sorry to hear about this.

Don April 01, 2006

Hi:

I share your gut reaction to buying books by the foot, or "books for looks." The following notions might help:

1. We can pity those who don't read. Perhaps their situation will be improved by the mere proximity to books. Perhaps the buyers or a guest will absent-mindedly pick a book off the shelf, flip through it, and be seized by a life-altering passage. OK, maybe not.

2. More importantly, the buyers may be saving these books from oblivion - from becoming packing material, for instance. There may be gems in these boardfeet of books that won't be recognized for a hundred years. So, we can at least think of these Philistines as performing a service for the books, though they have no better sense of a book's true value than a crow has of a bracelet it uses to line its nest.

Cheers,

Don

Adrienne April 01, 2006

Dear Mr. McKinney


I am an avivd reader to your "monthly", in fact, save them all. I want to comment on your article on "decor books". It is sad, sad, sad. Building customer collections whether inexpensive volumes or high end in the same author field takes work and patience - sometimes as much as 10 to 12 years and the elusive volume never found. Since 1973 I have never encountered the book world as it is today. Second printings labeled first (Runyon's "Guys & Dolls"), book is fine (since it is old) with frayed ends, foxing, etc. So your articles in general are appreciated.


Adrienne

Oceanside Books, Inc.

dba Mystery Bookstore

Sourcer March 05, 2006

Re: ABE and the meeting

ABE came into existence in order to serve its clients and facilitate any connections between bookdealers and book buyers. Along the way, it metamorphosed into an entity whose major interest is producing a Return On Investment for its owners. Its original raison de etre receded into a foggy background as being almost beneath its dignity. It became a profit vampire like eBay. It will keep raising fees and squeezing its income sources till they turn chalk white and and then seek new income sources. As the writer claims it is its right to carve ever greater chunks out every sale that comes near it. It is the way of our economic system. The laborers work hard to see to it that the investor class can live like royalty.

"Sourcer"

Peter Gambitsky March 03, 2006

Mr. McKinney:

Just a short note to express my thanks for your many even sided articles in
your monthly newsletters.

However, I feel what you failed to mention in 'ABE -- To The Summit And
Back' is what has been lost by ABE subscribers over the past year. Those
responsible for these losses and reduced services now seem to want a rate
hike (credit card processing) as a reward.

You (correctly I feel) suggest that ABE ..." make their site more effective
for their dealers. Find ways to sell more of their books. Use some of their
increased income to increase the dealers' income too."

But what I've seen on top of the latest fee increase are losses not
mentioned in your article: The Amazon and Barnes & Noble sales venues,
decreased service (I used to get my want matches sent via email, I now have
to download them from the link sent to me) and at times horrendous web site
performance, and associated lower sales as a result.

A mention of this may have assisted others to possibly understand another
reason for the angry sentiment of the proposed April 1 changes by many
booksellers.

Best Wishes,

Peter Gambitsky

C. E. Van Norman, Jr. March 03, 2006

Dear Mr. McKinney,



First of all I wish to thank you very much for your splendid work in operating your Americana Exchange. Furthermore, your airing of the new increases by Abebooks in the use of their credit card system in book sales was most informative and stimulating.



The question arises concerning their obvious belief that they have a "captive audience" which will accept almost any change in order to sell books via abebooks' site. In the past year there have been at least two new bookselling sites. No doubt there will be an increase in those numbers as Abebooks adds to its profits in any way their new management can by further raising costs to booksellers.



Perhaps it would be helpful to list the various Abebooks increases in its charges since the new management took office. With the advanced computer programs in operation today, it would not be difficult to download booksellers' listings to another and more reasonable site.



Sincerely,

C. E. Van Norman, Jr.

Dee Mosteller March 01, 2006

Michael Stillman's article on the ABE summit was Right On. I am a very, very small book dealer, who has seen her meager profits made more and more meager by ABE's increasing profit-motivation, while my sales have dropped because of the disconnect from Amazon sales. I understand that they must make money to continue; but do they truly need that large a percentage of a book dealer's money? And why can't they promote the site more to people who might be customers if they only knew about it? Everyone I ask says they never heard of ABE.

Thank you,

Dee Mosteller

Bookbuyers, Ink

Withheld March 01, 2006

March Abe Article

A fine article. I have been banging my head trying to persuade UK dealers that the increased cost of using Abe is akin to having a store rent increase-which I did experience. You have to make your own commercial judgement whether or not you continue. Unfortunately there is at present no real alternative with worldwide reach.
I like your suggestion that froogle or somesuch will be an alternative whose time has come for book dealers. It requires you to have your own website, so there is a commercial opportunity for somebody to sell and maintain dealers' websites at an economic cost.

Name Withheld February 07, 2006

You might want to update your current ABE article

As you certainly know, the summit stirred up more bad feelings than I thought could be possible. The word "betrayal" leaps to mind, but you probably have a better vocabulary.

I think your article deserves a little footnote, seeing as how the hopes you expressed (with everyone thinking that ABE was making a good-will gesture) turned out to be another screwing by an increasingly disfunctional site.

. February 05, 2006

Hello,

I do not know if Michael Stillman was quoting Joe Rubinfine's catalogue, or if these were his own words:
"Together, they strove to tear apart the nation their forbearers had created" in reference to Robert E. Lee. I do know that Lee was trying only to defend his home state from an illegal invasion by a warmonger president/tyrant. To state, in effect, that Robert E. Lee was out to destroy the United States is offensive, irresponsible, and totally false.

Sincerely,

Jay Lester

Chapel Hill, NC

Writer's Response

Those comments were my own, and I believe it is both ironic and incontrovertible that Robert E. Lee was attempting to tear apart the nation his father, Revolutionary War hero and Washington associate "Light Horse Harry" Lee had helped to create. One can argue the justness of the second Lee's cause. One can debate whether the southern states in 1860, or even whether a disgruntled state today, has a legal right to secede, or whether those bonds are, in the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, "indivisible." It is even possible to debate the the ethics of slavery, though I know of no sigificant leader today, even from the South, who argues that slavery is anything less than an abomination. However, I think it is impossible to argue that Lee was not trying to divide the nation. After all, the South seceded, and attempted to divide the Union into two separate states, the USA and the CSA. Is there any question of this? You are certainly entitled to the opinion that Lee's cause was self-defense from a warmonger-tyrant (although you cannot escape that part of what was being defended was the institution of slavery), but you cannot change the fact that the means chosen to effect this "self-defense" was to tear apart the one nation founded during the Revolution and replace it with two smaller ones.

Orville J. Grady February 04, 2006

Always enjoy reading your monthly newsletter. As a dealer subscribing to the service ABE has provided over a number of years you might make note of the following comments: If someone else were to come along and offer some competition that i found acceptable i would drop ABE like a bad habit. They have become too greedy, the latest fiasco is now to force the dealers to do all their credit card transactions thru ABE processing at an outrageous 5.5%. ABE is not bookseller friendly at all. Most sellers depend upon the rapport they establish with their clientele, especially if they specialize in a particular area. Good booksellers depend upon repeat customers; ABE attempts to disrupt that relationship.

Orville J. Grady (Numismaitic Literature bookseller)

Martin Walsh February 01, 2006

I share Bruce McKinney's irritation with on-demand reprints being included in Abe's book search listings. Another thing that Abe needs to curb is where sellers list every copy of identical new books in their stock, thereby clogging up searches. It is irritating to check on an old title to find maybe 30 copies on offer, and for 20 of these to be identical listings of an audiobook or new paperback from Papamedia.com of Ithaca (the most frequent offender I encounter).


Regards,